The auto makers should inform Ricky they are leaving the state if he signs. Unions have paved the way for many non union jobs. Lets not forget, the auto companies in the south no pensions, and lax benefits.

Easydude,The auto makers won't be around - when everyone is making depression -era wages, no one will buying new cars, houses or much of anything else for that matter - I find it the height of hypocrisy when the 'Nerd" routinely states that much of our economy is consumer spending driven, (and our has been slowly improving) and now is prepared to remove a good portion of the middle classes purchasing power. Every where right-to- work has been tried, it has lowered the standard of living, period. Unions are not perfect, but they are better than politicans, certainly. No one is forced to join a union, if you don't agree with a union, take another job. The "nerd" needs to update his resume - "Lying Nerd" is closer to the truth........

I think this makes the most sense, the voters did vote down the union proposals and this will give the workers the choice to pay the union or not depending if they want to join. It leaves the choice up to the worker and as a worker i should have my choice how i want to work, if the union benefits are worth the cost to me i can select it, if i feel their positions do not align with my needs i can not select it and still work and provide for my family without having to find another job. I cannot see the harm in this at all, if the unions benefits are what the people want they can still select it, the only harm comes to the union if the people decide they don't want a union but that would be the peoples choice not the governments or Rick Snyders choice. I read over the bill fully and understand it to be this way, do you two disagree that this will give the worker the choice ? why is empowering a worker so bad ? Please explain the downside ?

Tremendous... Finally!! There is an article in Todays WSJ explaining this.. The only people who have "sour grapes" are the unions because they won't be able to "strong arm" memberships that no longer benefit employees (has union membership not decreased in the last decade??). Sure many years ago they were of value however now that lawyers run the show any "grievence" is typically settled in court.. Perhaps MI should next tackle some sort of legal abuse issue!!!

If I don't want and didn't vote for (let's say) a property tax increase to support some service (maybe regional transit, and Art museum or local library...) would Governor Snyder support my "freedom to choose" and exempt me from paying those taxes. Keep in mind i could still ride the bus or go to the library like everyone else. Of course he would not. Similarly, if you choose to work for a union shop, you sould have to pay like everyone else. Your "freedom to work" is to go elsewhere, just as my "freedom to choose" means moving to another community if I don't like the (democratically chosen) taxes. There are no free rides, Mr. Snyder...

If your for or against, one thing is for sure, any time something is presented and passed the same day, SMELLS, even the K-2 mind killer law, took a while to get through. Has Our Gov'r finally lost his reserve.? now I hear, Wash. might make the $$$ needed to do the bridge, for Snyder, become as untouchable as Bush did the same for the Autos ... I guess all is fair in love and war

The GOP has gone after seniors, the poor, gays, women and now unions. Who or what will they go after next ... their big paychecks, big pensions, big perks? When hell freezes
over - that's when.

Yes i have chosen to avoid working for a union shop my whole life as i like the fact that my job performance influences my pay and success without having to rely on others to do that for me. I can see the benefit of a union for the worker that can't do that on their own or is a average or low end performer and needs the strength of others to succeed. I however like to be in control of my career and future and not have to deal with the stress that collective bargining brings as they negotiate for the group and not you specifically.

Tom Skyler, I like you :) Thank you for being an adult and wanting to earn your own way. The others don't care if their unions outprice the cost of our products in the intenational market, and will further tank our economy. They would rather take the highest wage until the bottom falls out and then have the government feed them.

I know these type of debates can get heated but i can tell you that it is empowering to write my performance review showing the skill set i bring to the company and then discussing it with my employer in our review for my raises and performance bonuses. I have recieved a bonus and a raise for the past 6 years at my current job, even through the bad economy, did all my co-workers ? probably not, but why should my hard work carry them ? The opportunity is there for them too but it is up to them to reach it. I think that is fair, don't you agree ?

Jerry, No one is telling you not to fight for your job, salary, benefits or working conditions or any other details that your union discusses on your behalf with the companies you work for. No one is even telling you not to continue to pay the union to do that for you but some of us like to "take the bull by the horns" and negotiate our own terms with the company we work for. If we feel we have the skill set to do that, why can't we ? Maybe you are more trusting then me but i dont want to be waiting to "hear" what deal my union has made for me, i want to make my own deal for myself. Does that make sense to you ? Have you only worked in union shops or have you ever worked in a performance based culture at a job ?

Well, so much for the trade unions. And soon women will be back under male thumbs where they belong. Not too long after this the darkies will be back under lock and key as God intended, and then we can finish the job with the d@amned Jews.

Oh yeah! Thanks, Duke. Though there are many who prefer this matter settled privately, with baseball bats and the like. But public persecution is good, too.

LOL..... Touche' !!!

Wow, this esculated out of control. Lets keep this professional please

The Republicans are fixated on keeping the poor and middle class from getting ahead. In the meantime, a typical CEO in the US makes about $10 million annually-- and about 380 times more than an average worker.

Ray, Are you saying democrats cannot become CEOs ? No one is stopping you from working hard and being successful. You do not get ahead in life by choosing a political party you know, it's not that easy.

I'm saying that salaries are way out of whack. Corporations routinely slash workforces to improve their bottom line, when if they simply cut the CEO's bloated compensation, they could almost accomplish the same thing. In short: I take the side of those who need help the most--not the super rich who've done phenomenally well during the past few decades and will do well in the years to come.

I know this is complex to understand sometimes but try to think of it as sports, sometimes a few gifted athletes make millions of dollars. Running a small business is tough enough but running a huge corporation takes a unique skill set that few of us have and that how they can command that salary. Its easy to blame someone else for your lot in life but the truth is our future is up to us, some of us like to balance home, family and career, others give it all up to be a CEO or Sports Athlete, very few have it all, very few.

Tom: So the solution is to reward CEOs and athletes the billions, and keep your foot on the neck of the American working man and woman to make sure they pay their "fair" share of that compensation their own skills and work provided for them? Great idea. Are you in the shackles and fetters industry, by any chance?

No but I am striving to be successful in my life, I work hard, dedicated to my craft and like I said before I am responsible so my future. I do not accept that anyone else is keeping me down, I do not blame successful people for my failures in life, these athletes and CEO do not stop me from reaching my goals, do they stop you ? The grass always looks greener on the other side you know, I am sure we are happier and in a better place then many of those CEO and athletes you think so highly of

Everyone knows the Republican?Tea Party's agenda. Selfish!

Yes you are correct, because I have never needed a union to get a fair wage and benefits, I guess this change means little to me. I am sorry to hear you haven't been able to get a career where you are in charge of your own destiny. Good luck to you !!!!

Don't get me wrong. I have never belonged to a union. We still have serious issues to address. Thus far, there has been little transparency with Snyder. I really was hoping for a better note from him.
Time will tell.

Yes it will, the future awaits us full of hope

Tom: I can hardly wait to hear your reaction when we have another Pullman Strike and the decision goes the other way. By then, though, you're unlikely to be able to afford a computer, or TV, or refrigerator. Let's see how you like being returned to 1870. Your kids, of course, will be worse off.

Pete: I am not a doomsday type of person, I also do not believe the world will end on December 21,2012. As far as my career and benefits, I disagree. If my employer wants my skill set they will have to pay it, or I take my talents elsewhere. The bottom line is performance, if you are making or saving the company money, you are valuable, we all know this. It's when you start to become a liability more then an asset that your value goes down. I know everyone's situation is different and this may affect you but in the end it is up to us to decide what is best for us and our families. Companies still need to make money and you make money off of skilled, high performing individuals. I understand what you are saying by blending the needed high skilled workers with the average workers or in some cases the low skillset workers the union was able to get more money to the average and lower skill sets. I get that, since I work in a non union industry, when we have a lower skill set worker or a lower performer they are paid far less then higher performer worker. The unions blended all workers together and paid them all the same, so some benefited from that, others not as much. The future is always evolving, new generations with new ideas, my kids will probably think I lived in cave man times. Wish you all the best with your careers and your political choices.

Finally I can keep those union dues in my pocket, (unions worked up until they started off track in the 70's, when they were worried more about how much dues money they were losing and what they should have been doing, looking after the workers)

The real issue the unions are so upset about is the lack of dues will decrease the over bloated salaries and "jobs" of the union officials. They won't be able to continue to "represent" the member appropriately. The Chrysler workers who were caught drinking and smoking dope at lunch were recently given their jobs back. The unions have a image problem. The Roscommon teachers in September de-certified the MEA. "We are not anti-union, we are anti-MEA. There were many services that were provided by the MEA that we could do ourselves, at half the cost." There is a reason why union membership has fallen. I think the whole "job banks" concept was the final straw for many. I was a union member back in the late 70's and early 80's...the goal was to get as much from the employer as possible. My goal was to work my way through college to not be dependent on the unions, because ultimately, as has been shown, their model is not sustainable.

And l'aissez-faire capitalism is? Or do you prefer the Chinese model of economic management -- you're happy to be making your dollar a day, or you're back in the street to be deported to the mines or simply harvested for useful organs? It doesn't matter -- you won't have a say in how the economy shapes itself or how you're bossed. You'll take it and like it, see? You can dodge the unions but you can't dodge the people who deign to offer you a job at starvation wages. But that's the world you prefer, right? Bow down before the One you serve -- you're going to get what you deserve.

That is what we are avoiding by eliminating mob bosses, I am sure you were happy with the billions of your unions dues spent on the failed proposals this past election instead of better health care or wages for your families. The leaders of the unions are no better, you have been bowing down and serving them for years. I bet you will be surprized how free and independent you will be when you finally decide to check the box not to give them your hard earned money.

You have no idea how harder your money is going to be to earn. None whatsoever. In fact, you're going to be made to feel guilty for asking for so much. Do you think money grows on trees? Nose to the grindstone, dog. Thirteen more hours to go.

We will see, I think just the opposite, I think that the hard workers will be rewarded while the others will either have to step it up or fall behind. They will have a greater freedom to reward the high performers without having to reward the slackers.

With unions representing only 17%, and still dropping, of workers, their effect is limited.

That is correct, majority rules, if unions were what the people wanted the proposals would of passed and membership would not be at an all time low.

So we're going to go back to the days of Peter the Painter and the Pullman Strike and how Andrew Carnegie ended the threat of unionization at US Steel. And people are you are going to say those are all just more examples of "bad luck."

I think you people need to go take a look at how hard work was rewarded at the Triangle Shirt Company. If that's what you want, you can have it. Don't ask the rest of us to join you, though.

We are not going back, we are moving forward. Those days are long gone and so are the union glory days, with or without this legislation the membership has declined steadily every year. It's only a matter of time.

Forward to wage slavery, then? I don't know why you think it's better to fall on your face than lean too far backwards, but it takes all kinds, dunnit?

I am a new generation, I wasn't raised in a union family. I have never worked in a union shop. I learned how to fend for myself, got a job, got a skill, got an education and fought hard to get a good job with good benefits all on my own. I am sorry to hear that without a union you will not be able to secure a good paying position. Good luck to you.

Michigan is becoming Mississippi.

@Pete..."returned to the dark machine"...really...is that how it was when coming out of the jobs bank, getting 90% of your salary to do nothing. Is that how it is when 3 workers are standing watching the 4th work? I'll not argue that unionization had it's place at one point...to protect workers from management...but they lost sight and while some would call it "creating the middle class", others call it a power grab of work rules, excess benefits, laziness and entitlement. I worked on a "quality" system at Chrysler where the line worker had to press a button to say if he did or did not do his task correctly. Probably the same Chrysler workers who were fired for alcohol and drug use at lunch, but were recently given their jobs back. Guess we need to thank the union for that. I wonder how all the non-union companies in this world make it ? I guess by management that realizes that well treated employees are productive. Going backwards will not happen. The amount of union workers will continue to fall and guess what society will continue and prosper.

You mean while the privileged prosper, and people like you see their wages stay flat or shrink. Your phone bill goes up, your cable bill goes up, your rent goes up... your income stays fixed. Somebody's got to pay for all those Mercedes that somebody else drives. Why not you? You hate everybody making the same money anyway, and feel they're overprivileged and drunk and undeserving -- why shouldn't you pay more for them, while they get fired and go on public assistance, as you apparently prefer? Your boss will drive a nicer car soon -- aren't you happy for him? You helped pay for it, after all.

Sure I know it was a part of history much like primitive medicine and living with no electricity. I do appreciate the previous generations but I'm not going back, I'm moving forward in my corporate environment with my computers as you stated. Is that wrong ? Why criticize me for being educated and having a career ? I am a hard worker sure not as hard as a coal miner but I choose my career based on my interests and what I love to do. The labor movement, the civil rights movement and the women's movement all shaped out future and I do thank them for their hard work. Society now has laws that protect certain working conditions, we have lawyers and can sue for all types of discrimination. We have video on our phones and can capture misconduct at work and have it go viral and be all over social media. We now have ways to reach CEO and make a difference that they didnt have back then, these are different times can't you see that ??? We have evolved and will continue to grow. Thank you for your thoughts.

First, it was proposal 2. Second, the SEIU lost it's case in court. Third, Snyder said " It's not on the agenda" " To divisive". Forth, Michigan rejected school vouchers and what's Lansing up to next after Snyder signs RTW on Tuesday?
RTW was payback for Prop 2, we all know that. I look at it from the long view.Why not put it to a vote, like Prop 2?

Yes it does appear the voters have spoken in Michigan and we are finally getting what we voted for, I am excited about the future of Michigan. I enjoy having a balanced budget without a government shut down, I enjoy the system working without the endless red tape and delays. Why delay and waste taxpayers and union money for yet another vote ??? We voted down the union proposals and we voted in this government and this governor, we already voted for it all, let our voice be heard and stop trying to keep us down with all the red herrings and doomsday predictions ...... Give democracy a chance to work, geez you are all a bunch of crotchety old men, still drinking the union Kool aid. It's unreal how negative you are about growth and change, just want to keep living in the past. Change can be good, give it a chance.

Tom, what exactly is it that you do not understand that we voted down vouchers? We the people? Crotchety? Pot meet kettle.
Snyder himself said " Not on the agenda"
Frankly, I do not like a bunch of part timers in Lansing deciding whats right for me. They work 180 days a year, yet they pull down a full time pay check with bennies and pensions for life. Sorry. I find it insulting along with the drinking of the kool aide comment. I don't know how RTW is going to work. I just know that the Governor looks weak now because he said one thing and did another. So please, quit throwing bombs.
And , no, I'm not union , nor is anyone in my family.

Looks weak ? He has been able to pass legislation in just two years that others couldn't in eight. I like the direction we are heading since the lack of leadership we had with Jennifer Granholm era is finally past us. Year after year we had government shutdown and budgets that were last minute deals that failed. Were you in Michigan during those times ? I doubt you can say they were better...

You people. When the privileged step on you, I wonder if you will even think, in the moment before you are blended with the pavement, that to them you and the unions are just different species of noxious ants.

Oh Pete, what in the past 5 years has the union done for you ? Gave concessions ? Raised dues ? Wasted union fees on failed proposals ? Sounds like the track I don't want to be on... You better jump off soon.

I agree, when circumstance change its nice to know he will listen to the voters and respond quickly. This was a great example, I see the great things he is doing and I'm happy with the direction of Michigan at this time.

Lets see, WE voted down school vouchers and THEY will pass them. Not exactly WE the people.
I will not even address the usual screamers on the Patch.

But that's okay with Tom and Christine here, who frankly hate people not as well off as themselves and imagine they need to be put back in their place -- some dark hole where they won't be seen or heard from again, or better yet, back onto a boat to Africa which their tax dollars, they imagine, will then sink. The hate and despite they manifest they don't even realize make them perfect tools for privilege and the people who would rule them absolutely to do their dirty work. They are but tools. Proud of it, too. Forward to slavery!

Again with the doomsday, if being privileged means I have a job that I got on my own, then yes I'm privileged. Are you saying you are happy being a bottom feeder ? Do you have any aspirations ? Just update your skill set, pick yourself up by your bootstraps and make something of yourself. You will be ok without your union, I promise.

Tom, microcephalon, you're nobody special, and you haven't the money to make any real difference. The people who do will do as they have always done and work to make sure they have the power and you do not. They will take your money and make you feel that it was wrong for you to have so much. They will tell you that it's wrong and evil to get together with your fellow losers to try and make a difference. No more unions. In fact, isn't democracy all about giving losers the idea that they run things? It has to go. People like you will be used to take the vote away from people you're convinced -- or shortly will be -- don't deserve it. You'll be taxed to pay the police to make sure losers don't get together for any threatening purpose, like trying to have a say in the government. You'll root them on. Until they come for you, as they have always done, and take what you have and put you away because you're a threat, too, and need to be taken out. And you'll bleat this could never happen to you until they waterboard you unconscious and put you in a cell with the people you helped put in there first.

People like you think justice comes from On High, like mercy. You have no idea how power turns men into beasts that prey on their own kind. You think you stand with the wolves. But you are a sheep. And tasty when roasted.

I'm sorry is this Germany pre-war ? Are you Hitler ? Things will never go back, we have evolved. We now have new ways to organize and communicate that no longer involve unions. We have the power of social media and one persons voice can reach millions now. I will be fine and so will our next generation, I know letting go of the past is tough but it's time to move on. Unions no longer have a place in the world I live in, I'm glad they served you well in the past.

Being purposefully stupid doesn't help you, Tom. I think your education in history must have stopped when you were about twelve. Or you wouldn't blithely tell people who are trying to afford doctors, daycare, and hold a job that pays for any of this to "just use Facebook." That's very Marie Antoinette of you. I guess you figure those days won't come again because of your magic computer, huh? It's because of people like you that Mark Twain could say, "History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

ROBERT KING PRESIDENT $176,700.00, just your average blue collar guy. Like the rest of the team: http://www.unionfacts.com/employees/united_auto_workers
Sorry I am not buying that these well to do business men are looking our for the poor, they are not using union dues to pay health care or child care to the poor and unemployed. They simply provide a service to those that pay them, it's not out of the goodness of their hearts. Come on, do you really believe that ? As with history, we has poor people before unions, we had poor people with unions and sure I'm sure we will have poor people in the future. The truth is we need all types of people in this world, some made it on their own, some paid the union to help them, some used the government to help them. I am not faulting you for paying a service to negotiate your salary and benefits, so why fault me for not using them ? And yes I have a magical computer, Steve Jobs told me it was magical. Even with your doom and gloom 3rd world country scenarios, Michigan making this change is supported by the Majority, that is how the system works, we voted into office the leaders we wanted to represent us. Recall attempts Failed, proposals failed, union membership declining. Are you not seeing the writing on the wall ?

Skyler, you're hysterical -- in more than one sense of the word. First of all, your source is a front for notorious anti-labor lobbyist Rick Berman, so it's hardly impartial and its veracity is suspect. But you apparently feel you can wield your magic Internet and prove just what you think you want to prove -- which seems to be a whole lot of nothing. What's all this maundering about union charities? Are you denying they exist? Are you trying to say they are ineffectual, since there still are poor people? By that argument, we need to close every Fire Department, since we still have fires.

No, you're not in control of yourself, let alone your argument. You sense I'm right, desperately want to show I'm wrong, but you haven't the skill or the education to do so. I think that pretty much proves my point about you being used by people who don't like you any more than they like unions, and want you gone as soon as you've done your job.

Michigan doesn't support so-called 'right-to-work' unionbusting laws. Neither did Snyder, until somebody apparently put a gun to his head. You and your petty tyrant bosses don't hold all the cards here, and their shameful attempt to back-alley this legislation is going to be met with strong popular opposition. Wake up, class warrior -- your side is desperate and it is losing.

Really your 17% is winning ? I don't need my magical computer to know that's losing.

What 17%? The percentage of the American electorate responsible for voting for George W. Bush? I don't trust your loose, unsubstantiated, sensationalist, useless number-throwing. You are without credibility. You're just a hater. And less bright than most.

Well by your definition, you are a hater. Sure I support the option to not pay union dues and still be able to work where you want. It's you that is against it.

It's not an "option," simpleton. That's the language of your Masters. It's a law meant to make unions illegal by making it impossible to collect dues. It's a cowardly and unmanly way to keep people from organizing against oppression. You know -- like yours. I know what you are. And you're not bright enough to be an American.

By masters you mean the democratically elected officials that were voted in by the majority in this state ?

I usually vote democratic but, in the last gubernatorial election, I voted for Rick Snyder. That is a mistake I won't soon make again. Snyder claims to be a data driven executive. Yet, when it comes to his signature business tax cuts, he swears they were necessary to create jobs but won't tell us how many jobs will be created. So there is no way to gauge success (i.e. nothing to measure). Now he is pushing for elimination of the personal property tax without identifying how it will be kept from impacting communities, schools, libraries, etc. In the meantime our public schools have to scrape by for funding with larger class sizes and poorer materials. In case no one noticed, we passed 2 Royal Oak millage increases in the last election, all necessary to make up funding the Gov. Snyder has given to business. Finally this last minute switch on RTW (and that's what it is) is a slap in the face. You can argue the positives and negatives all you want. In my opinion, for all their warts, unions helped create the middle class in the US and will continue support the middle class as long as they are allowed. I sincerely hope what we're seeing now is the process of Rick Snyder moving back into the private sector as soon as possible.

I am a numbers person myself, so when enrollment is down at these schools, it makes sense to consolidate. When I was in school, my graduating class was twice the size of what they are today. More people have to understand that at long as the ratio stays the same, it makes sense, less kids = less money, less teachers, less workers .... I know the general public just focuses on news headlines and not the raw data. I remember recently when the Detroit population numbers came out, but instead of saying we have half a million less people so we need less workers now, they lead with thousand of jobs cut. Oh well all news is becoming TMZ lately.

I have been a manager in a union shop. The union runs the factory not management....and management knows of they don't play by the union rules all sorts of problems occur, machines start breaking down, people refuse to do things as out of their classification and the place stops running. The union spends more time protecting, lazy absent workers than good ones.......the union bosses can likely be found in the local bar or coffee shop tucking it up about how good they have it.

Finally, nothing in this legislation stops a union from forming and existing.....there is no limit on collective bargaining to occur. Maybe with this legislation the unions will actually have to prove to the workers they can delive some good and not just take their union dues for granted which is what occurs today...I know, I lived it.

Pete, do you not think its possible that myself or many others might get paid more with or without unions ?

But hasn't that been going on for years ? Salesmen and commission based jobs get paid higher and lower amounts based on performance. Would you not like to reward a top performing teacher with more money ? Or do you feel all teachers are equal and should make the same ? That could be the same with all industries, do you really think all workers are the same ? Are there not better workers where you work ?

The problem isn't paying better-performing workers more. It's who gets to determine what 'performance' is and what compensation should be 'rewarded' as a result. I agree with Robert Townsend that salespeople need to be paid on a commission scale that slides up -- the more you sell, the greater your return. That's not the case with teachers, firemen, or policemen. Performance here is a lot harder to gauge. If there are more fires, do you pay firemen more? What if there are fewer fires? If you judge cops by the number of traffic tickets they write, do you know what happens? And if kids come to class unmotivated, lazy, undisciplined, and their parents are the same way -- do you pay teachers less? More? Or just cut out the middleman entirely and just lock the doors and try to keep order, just like jail?

Things are getting worse here, and it's not because of unions. 3Q 2012 saw a 13% increase in corporate profits at the same time wages remained stagnant or shrank. That's not the fault of any union. There's a deeper systemic problem here with who gets rewarded for what kind of performance, and the people getting rewarded are the people who determine what's fair for themselves and everybody else. And guess what? They've decided they're worth more than anybody else. More than that, they've decided you make too much, and you need to be trimmed. Is that fair? You tell me.

But it's dangerous either way, what motivates a worker to work harder then an associate if no matter what they do, the salary, benefits are the same. I know it's hard to judge performance In some case but I hate to not award a top performer because we are all the same in the union environment.

You think so, do you, Tom? Dangerous to pay people too much as well as too little?

Take it up with Brian Driscoll, former CEO of Hostess Brands, whose salary tripled to $2 million while the company stonewalled employees and tried to force concessions from them. When the employees didn't cave, the company filed for bankruptcy -- whose petition was thrown out because the CEO pay increase, plus increases for other top executives, were still in there and employees were to pay for it.

Or Jamie Dimon, whose JPMorgan Chase bank lost $2 billion in a trading snafu nobody caught. He's taking home $23 million this year -- also an increase.

If we're talking about paying too much for too little performance, I think we need to start at the top. We're not getting what these people are paying themselves to produce, supposedly. But it could be worse. Think of what would happen if CEOs unionized -- and demanded more money from everybody. What would THAT bill look like?

Yes, from what I read about Hostess is the unions were not on the same page. UAW accepted the deal but the bakers turned it down. Very sad

Yes we have two schools on the same street blocks from each other, each with its own full staff including maintenance. What a waste of money and resources, can't the same crew clean and maintain two buildings ?? Any other business hires one service to maintain multiple stores. Do you really need to duplicate everything ? Share supplies, costs, services, make these schools more efficient and then you could pay the teachers what they deserve instead of it all being wasted. Do you really think the answer for Detroit is to keep spending because someday the people will return ??? That its only temporary ? Are you serious ? Did you just say that ?

Gee, Tom. Maybe at the end of the day, when the teachers are done teaching, they can also become janitors & clean their own classrooms, hallways & bathrooms. You sound like that knucklehead, Newton Gingrich.

Yes I know trying to save money is a "radical" idea but it's a part of life. I had to cancel all the extra at my house when times got tough, my heat is set at 58 degrees, I have no cable or Internet at my house and yes after working all day at my job, I work nights doing side jobs. So I guess you are better then me and it's beneath you to do extra work, let the peasants clean up after us huh ? It's ok for me and thousands of others like me to do what it takes to survive but not you, it's beneath you. Must be nice to live such a privledged life.

Tom, you're off your meds. You're also plainly a loser. You come here and rave about how great it will be when unions are broken, and yet you're living the life -- or so you claim -- of the sort of dispossessed, powerless prole this legislation intends to make of us all. And you support that?

So it's loser's envy you're displaying here, right? Your vaunted independent, union-free life is nothing but a slow descent into poverty. You can't blame your bosses, so you attack people whose ability to organize and demand better makes you green with envy and red with rage. How sad. How pointless.

Let me give you a little clue: Stop banging your head on the wall, and the pain will go away. Support the right to organize and to demand change from those whose power is as without limit as their depravity. You just might make your life a little better. But if it's self-destruction you're after, bang away! Only don't do it here; you bother people with your loud, loud suicide.

I think Detroit was living beyond its means way too long, they need to streamline depts, services, find a way to offer its citizens basic services. It got too big and didnt shrink when they lost a half a million people, you can't still spend and staff the exact way you would with that many gone. Do you not agree ? Plus you can refrain from the racist remarks please.

Pete, I don't blame anyone else for my lot in life. I am a survivor, I lost my wife in a long battle with cancer. The time off and medical bills plus the loss of dual incomes impacted my family. So now I work twice as hard to build back what I had, it's hard being a single parent with two young kids who lost their mother but I do not blame the government. I got a new job and I'm slowly rebuilding on my own, without government aid, without paying a union. You can call me all the names you want but I am a hero to two little girls and that is all that matters at the end of the day. I'm done with this thread, you all can insult each other without me. Good night

Sorry for your loss, Tom. My cousin raised his two boys by himself, and did a good job. I wish you the same success.

Now why don't you return the favor and grant people the dignity to organize and stand against the powerful and the unscrupulous who want to put all these workers in the same straits as you? That's not the America I was brought up to believe in. That's no America I recognize at all. Dump your poisoned envy. Help America back to greatness.

Diary entry- December 11, 2012,
Governor Snyder and the Republican/Tea Party have awakened a GREAT GIANT!

Erik, my poor dear, It's called "GREED" ..learn your history..TRIANGLE WAIST SHIRT FACTORY.