Will Right-to-Work Law Lead to Recall of Gov. Snyder?

A political expert said Michigan could be “ground zero for a recall vote” against Snyder in 2013.

Could the sudden passage of the highly controversial right-to-work legislation lead to Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder's name appearing on a statewide ballot for something other than his re-election campaign?

One political expert thinks it's possible.

Joshua Spivak, a senior fellow at Wagner College’s Hugh L. Carey Institute for Government Reform, told Politico that Michigan could be “ground zero for a recall vote” against Snyder in 2013.

“There doesn’t seem to be a specific goal of going after state legislatures or state governors in any significant way, though that might change in Michigan because of right-to-work (legislation),” Spivak said in the Politico story. 

Local recall elections, such as the one voters recently approved against Troy Mayor Janice Daniels, are common over hot button topics. However, statewide recalls are far and few between.

In 2012, the only statewide recall was in Wisconsin against Gov. Scott Walker, his lieutenant governor and four state senators.

The effort was for naught, however, as the recall effort was unsuccessful.

Similar to the hubbub over Michigan's right-to-work legislation, Walker's recall was backed largely by labor groups after Walker stripped unions of collective bargaining rights.

What do you think? Will there be an effort to recall Snyder? If so, would you vote in favor of it? Tell us in the comments below.

Lee Jacobsen January 03, 2013 at 08:49 AM
Kurt, like all massive undertakings, RTW will take awhile to make itself felt, but there are some basic reasons why RTW will succeed in Michigan. Companies, and , as a math expert, you should agree, compete in the world market to survive. Mom and pop shops need the larger companies. That means the larger companies need to make a profit (nasty word to some) in order to survive. In ever increasing numbers, to make a profit, companies are deciding to establish or relocate in RTW states. As capital becomes ever more moveable, this trend will accelerate, and jobs will increasingly flow to the place of best returns — states with RTW where companies can achieve lower costs, increased productivity, and greater profits. Unions don't protect jobs, they lose them. They will be losing those union jobs to Michigan, where, without the restrictions unions often cause, companies can operate more efficiently, and , if they don't measure up with respect to pay and safety standards, the unions will be there to make them toe the line if need be. Lawyers can usually do the same thing for less for an employee, another discussion. Bottom line, RTW will be a good thing for Michigan, and , after Snyder is reelected for another term, he can start fixing Detroit as well. Who has been running Detroit for the last 65 years, and letting Detroit fall apart? Republicans? Don't think so. Dems..yep, and it is time for a change. The status quo in Detroit is not getting the job done.
Kurt January 03, 2013 at 03:20 PM
Obviously Lee companies need to make a profit. How does being a RTW state make that happen? Are there certain tax breaks in the law that make that possible? Does making us a RTW state suddenly make us Michiganders harder workers to increase productivity? How is it that companies are going to come here to make more profit? Oh that's right to lower wages and benefits how else? And your right Lee if companies fail to provide safety and pay thats where the unions are going to step in and help all the workers right? Not just the ones who pay dues. I guess your right about Detroit we should lower wages as inflation increases so more people are going to be on welfare because they make more money that working that way. That will fix detroit. Do me a favor and actually answer some of my questions instead of talking about going out into the fields again(we have heard that before)
Betty Werner January 03, 2013 at 03:27 PM
I would definetley support a recall. Again a republican in office is concerned more about the big business man. What about the working man and the middle class which is now poverty!
Betty Werner January 03, 2013 at 03:28 PM
Show me that petition. I will sign it!!
Betty Werner January 03, 2013 at 04:20 PM
GREAT POSTS!! Lianne Mathe
vincent January 03, 2013 at 08:21 PM
DJG, U can sat RTW would have passed if placed on a ballot On Nov/4th, it clearly was not. Your point is irrelevant.
Lee Jacobsen January 03, 2013 at 09:01 PM
Kurt, you are a teacher, fine, but until you run a business, and deal with unions within a business framework, how can you to comprehend the differences between a union and non-union shop? Others who have been there tell me if I am wrong, but my experience (40 yrs) has shown that union shops, while highly skilled, often fall behind in employee relations, customer demands, positive thinking and problem solving. Plus, there is always the added layer of personnel to deal with. Negotiated raises go to everyone, slackers and achievers alike. In a non union shop, everyone has a voice directly with top management, and if management is smart, they listen. I do. There is more teamwork, working together. Just the concept of union & management conjures an image of us vs them. Companies want management and workers to work as a team, make lots of money, and share the fruits of their labor. With union, all compensation is locked into a formula. With non-union, for an average employee, one year it could be a bonus of $20, the next $2000, depends on how productive the workforce and year was, and the ones who work the hardest, get promoted faster, and get more money. Slackers do not get rewarded. That is my view on why companies will now move to Michigan, to have more freedom to conduct business. As a business owner, sourcing a critical part for a 5 yr contract, same cost, would you choose union, or non-union to buy from? Non union gets the job every time, for obvious reasons.
vincent January 03, 2013 at 09:27 PM
If i were to fill Comerica stadium with random people from around Michigan and ask them some questions and, ask them to raise their hand in a (yes) vote to these questions, who among you would be able to have raised your hand, to reduced 1.pay in creases 2, COLA in creases (cost of living raises) give up week 1 paid vacations indefinitly 4,reduced medical benefits 5,reduced holidays by 4 6,Increase co-pay for Doctor visits to save jobs and create jobs for other people around Michigan and the US. as a union we voted to give up these thing and more, for (other) people. As a union we could have fought and won and then lost it all, but we didn't!. They as a membership felt the union pushing to far and made the choice to change. To survive and we did. Name ONE non- union shop that gave all this up, please, just one? to create any jobs, not just one job, but, hundreds of thousands !The reason the republicans fought so hard to not, bail out the auto industry, is because they believed the union would not change, or so they thought. But the union did. If people reality believe, collective bargaining is a bad solution, to the middle class fight to survive in this country and a good standard of living, then it should be put on a ballet and voted out.
Kurt January 03, 2013 at 10:37 PM
Ok Lee, I’m going to try and go slow since I am just a teacher and I obviously have no idea how to run a business. Let me think about what I do on a daily basis. I produce and sell a topic (lesson) everyday to my students (Customers) and try to get them to motivate them to do something with it (now they are employees) in a cooperative manner using problem solving of various kinds. Not to mention they all don’t understand the same things so I need to provide alternates for individuals who need attention. I have demands from my superiors and parents about achievements. Of course everyone gets along so well in my room(not) so there are those issues as well. Oh by the way I have to make sure each lesson is translated in 4 languages(Spanish, English, Japanese and Arabic. ps I only speak English). Now I could go on about product quality checks(checking papers, tests), customer feedback(Parent conferences, Evaluations) and data reports (LOTS AND LOTS OF DATA REPORTS).
Kurt January 03, 2013 at 10:38 PM
Your right I have no idea what it takes to run a business like you. However you have further proven to me that you truly have NO CLUE what it takes to be just a teacher. You have to excuse me but I don’t have the time to look it up since I have lessons to plan and translate for tomorrow, but how many union shops compared to non union shops are there in MI? Was there a law before RTW that new companies that came into MI HAD to be union shops and that was the reason why MI didn’t have businesses coming in? And I’m sorry I just don’t believe that companies are coming to MI because they want to hold hands and sing songs with their employees instead of making more money in other places, but maybe that’s because I’m a teacher and I am FINE with that.
vincent January 03, 2013 at 10:55 PM
Kirt this is Vincent and you can teach my kids any time, just keep Lee away from them. i keep getting e-mail to me from you about this RTW topic and I agree without and it seems you think it's giving you a hard time. Patch need to fix the the bubble orientation to if each topic and person to person conversation.
Lee Jacobsen January 04, 2013 at 06:27 AM
Kurt, interesting analogy but here's a different take. How so? As a boss (teacher) I instruct my employees (students) every day on how to make new products via work orders (lessons) that need to be fabricated using sophisticated equipment (books, computers,) to a satisfactory degree that meets customer acceptance PPAP (preliminary part approval process) or tests/exams. Of course, lots of paperwork (quality assurance) follows each job (student/employee. My point is that teaching comes with the territory with many businesses, the better the teacher, the more successful the business. I have taught for decades, and my students make the best parts. The difference is unions. With the teacher's union, good teachers and bad teachers are lumped together, seniority determines pay, not results. At least with my teaching, the bottom line tells me if I am doing a good job. Have tenure? You can't be fired. If I quote wrong too many times, teach the wrong methods, I am out of business. A union prevents the slackers from being fired. That is inefficient. RTW sends a message to the world that Michigan is open minded, and if you open a branch factory here, if it's union in other states, it does not have to be here in MI. You can kid about the lack of tension in a non-union shop, but wouldn't you rather look forward to going to work rather than the confrontational tensions of a union setting? Smiles instead of worries? Far fetched? Others know exactly what I am talking about.
Tom Skyler January 04, 2013 at 01:15 PM
After all the bad times and mistakes with our former governor, I like many of the changes he has made, very positive ones. I know its easier to think the grass is always greener but a recall or electing someone else might be far worse for the state. Those last years with granholm were pretty rough ya know.
Kurt January 04, 2013 at 05:03 PM
Wow Lee interesting take on the analogy but I thought you told me that being a teacher I have no idea as to how to run a business but it seems that you do the same things that I do. Remember though you pick your employees picking the best, I am given my students and they are a new group each year. How do you motivate your workers? Money, bonuses? I can only motivate them with letter grades and success later on in life. Also remember your workers go to work because they choose to I’m pretty sure my 12 and 13 year olds HAVE to be here by law. You also talk about good and bad teachers, how are you judging them by test scores? So the teachers who teach in more affluent areas where students have access to tutors and parents that support learning and have higher scores are better teachers since their student’s scores are higher and the bad teachers are the ones whose students come from broken homes, unsupportive parents with little or no access to additional help and lower test scores are the bad ones? You say that RTW shows that MI is open minded, seeing the comments posted on this website I see that people are pretty set in their ways , both sides, and nothing that I say is going to change their 40 years of experience minds.
Kurt January 04, 2013 at 05:04 PM
A lot of your ideas you bring up would work in ideal society where working hard always gives you rewards but I am sure you can agree that whether it is a union or non-union shop it isn’t always the case. I would love to continue this “discussion” but I’m sure people are getting tired of the emails(Sorry Vincent) and I am getting tired of defending my occupation to people that just because they have been in a school they understand what I do. Happy 2013
Lee Jacobsen January 05, 2013 at 03:41 AM
Kurt, you're right, folk are probably getting bored with our comments. Statistics do not lie however, and over the past decade and more, the RTW states have shown increased growth, both in jobs and population. Pay has also increased when compared to non RTW states, when cost of living and the starting wage rate are factored in. Whether Michigan joins the trend remains to be seen. But at least we are now a player... Regarding our analogies, neither is perfect. You can't kick out a student for stealing like I can, but wait! In Montessori , religious, and other charter schools they sure can kick them out, and discipline them as well. Often, with full approval of the parents. Odd that most of those schools are non-union, the teachers make less, yet the students come out , on average, smarter. You have to employ all, even if they don't want to work. Time then, to revamp the public school system way of handling students. Ditto for teachers who don't really care, are just biding their time until retirement, parents and students know which ones I am talking about. A simple email opinion survey will ferret them out. It may seem harsh, but send the losers (Adm, students, teachers) to a reform public school of sorts, where they can waste each other's time, and not the time of those who want to learn. Private type schools already have that power, how can we legally enable you and the public schools to have the same 'stick'.? I have the easy job. You don't.
Haulin T Male January 05, 2013 at 08:06 PM
so I gather a person can work in a union shop, but not pay ? I would not want to be that person, I'd rather be in a non union place and want to pay dues.......... Sort of like going to a frat party and not paying or joining the frat (I know about rushes) for get a party say taking up residence there but sleep off site.
Lee Jacobsen January 06, 2013 at 02:31 AM
Haulin...a person can work in a union shop, and pay union dues no problem. Don't like the union reps, service, or feel they are getting you no representation? Then one can express their feelings by not paying dues. Using your Frat party example, if you are invited to the party, but don't care for the beer or food, you can leave the party and not pay. If you join the Frat voluntarily, then you pay irregardless. In the case of the unions and jobs with companies with union representation, they (the union) made the rules with management, so you don't have a choice about voluntarily joining a union.....not your choice, you are in the union no matter what per the management and union contract agreement. However, the state of Michigan at least has allowed that you don't have to pay for what you consider sub par services (food). In other words, you are not forced to pay for a party that you believe is sub par and were forced to participate in involuntarily .. Union folk may disagree, 'what's wrong with Bud?", but if Piesporter wine is your forte, that is why a choice now exists in MI. Enjoy your glass of wine.
Tom Tyson January 06, 2013 at 06:57 PM
Think about this, if unions truley partnered with management for the success of the company and not protected losers who should be fired they would be welcomed into companies, they could become the HR departments of business, increase there ranks and grow. But nooooooo, they get the jobs back of dopers and drunks that party on the companies dime (Chrysler). What message does that send? The protect slackers while hard workers look on. They say if you spill somthing you have to call the janitor because "it's not your job" meanwhile the "spiller" sits and waits, wasting resources. If they help the company fire a loser, another union brother will be hired, so what is there net loss? The unions message to send is we will provide you quality workers, help train them, and weed out the slackers, but you have to pay fair wages, and we reserve the right to strike, but our number 1 intrest is in the secess of the company. NOn union shops at other car makers are in line with big three, and they don't want even to take a vote. Unions, maybe it's time to put away the big stick and work on cooperation with those that can build your ranks
Aaron January 08, 2013 at 09:04 PM
When Snyder ran, he said that he would not sign legislation in regards to right to work as an olive branch to the unions in this state. What happened? The unions did the end run and tried getting it passed as part of the state constitution. Now considering the neighborhood that I grew up in, that required a response. The unions got theirs. They could have just left it alone, but they pushed too far and expected the Governor to just roll over. The union overplayed their hand and got their butts in a jam. The Governor pulled out the big stick and taught them a thing or two about hand shake agreements. You better honor them even if it's not in writing like the beloved contract that Unions love to beat the company over the head with.
Tom Skyler January 13, 2013 at 01:11 PM
Interesting news this morning: (not sure why you can't admit he is far better then our previous governor) Lansing -- Modest economic growth in Michigan will give Gov. Rick Snyder about $600 million more to divvy up in a $20 billion spending plan he'll unveil Feb. 7, state budget director John Nixon said Friday. The positive revenue forecast is a stark reversal from a few years ago when tax revenue was plummeting and the state was resorting to slashing aid to schools, closing prisons and forcing public universities to raise tuition after withholding funding.
Steve Losey January 13, 2013 at 03:49 PM
Tom, Tom, Tom...........Have you filed your 2012 State taxes yet??? If and when you do I'm sure you'll get a good dose of reality. Revenues MAY go up this year but, they're still going to cut funding to public schools, they're going to continue to close prisons and public universities will continue to be forced NOT to raise tuition or face a cut in state aid. And you my friend will pay a higher tax rate, continue to have your public service levels cut, lose most of your deductions and receive a smaller (if any) tax refund. Meanwhile, large corporations will receive monsterous tax breaks (at your expense) with no guarantee that they will bring anything worthwhile to the residents of Michigan/Michissippi.
Tom Skyler January 13, 2013 at 04:50 PM
So you really do not see an improvement over our last governor ? I see a balanced budget, submitted early instead of government shutdowns, I see improved revenues in just two short years, less red tape. As for my taxes, it's the federal governments raise taxes and increase spending agenda that I will feel the most, not my state taxes.
Lee Jacobsen January 13, 2013 at 06:20 PM
Steve , Steve , Steve, who is the 'they' that will cut funding to schools, prisons, universities? If state revenue is going up due to more jobs coming to MI and those folk, as a result, paying taxes, no need to cut funding. Reality and law is that the States have to work with a balanced budget, which needs to be submitted each year. With Granholm, following Obama's lead of spending but forgetting that she has to, by law, balance and submit a budget, something Obama has yet to do, and lacking Obama's ability to print money, with Granholm, budget deadline time under Granholm was chaos. Michigan under Granholm equaled financial upheaval. It could have been way worse with Fieger as Gov.. ugh..shudder!!. Anyway, Snyder is still cleaning up Granholm's messes. Hundreds of companies, choosing between Michigan and other non-union states on where to either relocate or expand, in the end, chose non-union. Those are the facts. Snyder saw the facts. Snyder works for us, residents of Michigan. He made a decision. Now Michigan will get the benefit of more jobs coming to our state that otherwise would have gone elsewhere. Sure, some may 'ho-hum' jobs, but everyone starts up a ladder from the bottom, not the top, so one level at a time. After Michigan, Snyder will have to fix Obama's mess, (we can see how well Obama fixed Bush's mess-ten times the debt) but that is another forum....notice less $$ in your paychecks recently? Thank you for less Obamacare and Obama!
Steve Losey January 13, 2013 at 06:24 PM
Improvement from our last governor?? Sure, but the bar wasn't set that high. Balanced budget with no government shutdowns? It's very very easy to balance a budget when you steal money from one fund and put it in another. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is not a new concept. The federal government is not responsible for the cut of our Homestead Property tax elimination, taxing of senior pensions, elimination of the dependent tax credit, elimination of charitable donation tax credit or the raising of the State tax rate from 4.25% to 4.33%. Question is.......why is Snyder doing all of this???? Answer....it doesn't affect him one bit. He's a millionaire. Low income, middle class, hell even the rich don't matter to him. He's one of the "super rich." He's not about relentless positive action. He's ALL about Rick Snyder and making sure that he maintains his wealth. He does that by getting folks like you to believe that you've got a chance to be like him, you buy into his "one tough nerd" garbage because you can identify with that "we've been picked on and it's time to fight back" mentality. We all identify with that. At the end of his reign, he will still be a multi millionaire and you and I will still be working to make ends meet.
Steve Losey January 13, 2013 at 07:47 PM
Lee, Keep drinking the Kool-aid brother, I'll be shaking your hand in the unemployment line. Or better yet, maybe we share a refrigerator box when we're both evicted from our homes. Dream the dream my friend, you'll never attain the financial reality that Snyder says he's promising.
laplateau January 13, 2013 at 08:24 PM
Oh really? Pray tell me, what data base have you derive those "facts" from? Oh yeah, that's right, I gotch ya..... those talking points from the UAW, AFL-CIO, SEIU, AFCSME.... all those gentle folk we saw on the font lawn of the capitol, displaying all that class and adulthood. Oh, don't let us forget about their wonderful display of tent dismantling abilities. look who's talking about kool aid drinking, Steve!
Lee Jacobsen January 13, 2013 at 08:38 PM
Steve, you have your dreams, I have mine. All of us have dreams. Only a few wake up and smell the coffee. Those are the folk that create opportunities for themselves, and for others. Already I can see other business folk, (especially from IL, Obama's home state), looking to Mi for new hope, new opportunity, tax and union relief, and the fulfillment of denied dreams via Snyder's positive vision for Michigan, what's the slogan? Pure Michigan. Snyder is not promising that he will give you the financial reality that you want. You have to earn it Steve. How? By working smart, by creating or offering something folk want to buy, by increasing your worth to others and , as a result, bringing that financial reality higher than sharing a refrigerator. Of course, if you do that, you will have to share the wealth with others via paying taxes , to support the dreamers that have yet to 'wake up'. Another word for it is socialism. Equalization of wealth. The same for all. Doesn't matter if you work harder, it's all for the common good, at least that is the Kool-aid mentality that prevails in some circles, and protecting lax co workers via the union is not helping your cause. Some see a huge wave of taxes coming via Obamacare and are preparing to be engulfed. I say time to get out the surfboard and ride the wave crest, make medical stuff and make a profit selling to the Obamacare company providers. The govt takes, and gives back. The difference is being a 'maker'.
Tom Skyler January 13, 2013 at 08:44 PM
A stable budget is the 1st step, growing revenues is next, these are positives. I do not want a recall and I think he brings more good then bad, is he perfect ? Of course not but no one is and some are far worse. Ill take my chances with him.
Steve Losey January 13, 2013 at 09:23 PM
Like I said Lee. Dream the dream. Good luck to you, god help us all.


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